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[Music]

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so again thank you all for being here

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thanks to our panelists also we have

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some gifts for you at the end but thank

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you very much for coming I'll do a brief

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intro for everybody here so dr. Jennifer

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glass is an assistant professor here at

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the school of Earth and Atmospheric

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Sciences jezzer Bachelors of Science in

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both oceanography and Earth and Space

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Sciences she did for her PhD at Arizona

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State and geological sciences and she

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postdoc at Caltech

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dr. manna Stockton had four Bachelors of

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Science in chemistry and aerospace

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engineering master's in chemistry

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doctorate in chemistry from Berkeley and

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she postdoc at JPL she's mrs. a

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professor here in the School of

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Chemistry with a dual appointment at the

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bioengineering program and dr. Susannah

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whiticus Weaver who had her Bachelors of

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Science in chemistry at Illinois

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Wesleyan her doctorate of chemistry at

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Caltech and a postdoc at University of

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Illinois urbana-champaign and she's

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currently at Emory in the School of

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Chemistry so I thought we'd do an

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icebreaker first so if each of you could

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answer if there was a high impact

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Journal of negative results what would

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be your most cited paper so luckily they

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gave us these questions ahead of time so

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I thought about this for last couple

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days so I would have a lot from my own

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experiments but they said most highly

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cited which is always review papers so I

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would write a review paper on all the

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sources of contamination in different

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experiments that people should be aware

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of even like their lab water and things

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like that and also perhaps a table of

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prominent studies that have been shown

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to be artifacts some that we know

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something that we aren't as infamous or

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famous so I think that would get a lot

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of citations it would get a lot of hate

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to but it wouldn't so citation would you

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please help along those lines as an

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analytical chemist there's a lot of ways

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you can try to make something work and

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have it not work and it turns out that

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if you don't publish the ways it doesn't

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work more and more grad students are

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gonna waste their time trying those ways

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again and again so I think the list of

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all of the different reagents that don't

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result in very good any kc separations

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of carboxylic acids would be a pretty

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good one mine's actually a real paper I

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have tenure I can say these things now

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so the big result from my PhD thesis was

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a tentative detection of an interstellar

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molecule and it was the first key toast

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potentially detected in space we wrote

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it very carefully

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we hedged our bets we said it was

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tentative we did all the right things

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and then another group followed up a

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couple of years later and published more

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observations that showed that it wasn't

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there and people thought I would be

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devastated because they thought this was

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like the centerpiece of my thesis

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project but in astrochemistry if you're

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looking for a new molecule in space you

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basically keep looking line by line by

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line until there's one that's missing

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and then you know it's not really the

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molecule that you thought it was and so

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this is not unusual in this field but I

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think probably my most highly cited

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negative result is one that was actually

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published and turned out to not be

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correct so there you go

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very much so the first real question I

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guess so could you point to a couple of

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key decisions in your career while you

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made those and what would have happened

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you didn't make them so the inflection

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points in your early career okay so I

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think for me the first thing is that I

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was willing to change fields a lot as

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you heard all my degrees are in GL

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and yet I really feel more like a

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microbiologist at this point dabbling in

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biochemistry as well and so I think the

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interdisciplinary aspect of you know

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starting out in geology and isotope

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geochemistry and then I switched in you

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know to work on cyanobacteria and

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nitrogen fixation and I switched again

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to work on methane in the deep sea and

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then you know starting my own lab I've

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obviously switched into a lot of

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offshoots of that as well that I think

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would be a key decision definitely or

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just a key kind of passion I guess I'm

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kind of as if you know me you know I'm a

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little issues with focus and ADHD and

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you know just I love to think about a

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lot of things at once for better or

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worse and so I think I would have done

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that anyway I'm just that's my

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personality but I think that in some

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ways that really has benefitted me

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although at other times it was really

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good to focus to get through grad school

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things like that and something I want to

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throw out there because this is a lot

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about graduate school and I know that

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mental health comes up a lot and I think

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a key decision I made early on in grad

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school was to seek help for my anxiety

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and depression which is so prevalent and

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I had issues with that as well and and

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still do it's a lifelong you know

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lifelong thing as many of you probably

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know so I think that was very key was

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seeking seeking help and continuing to

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seek help so I can talk more about that

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anybody wants I have kind of similar key

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points as Jen here having also a number

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of different backgrounds that don't

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necessarily correlate directly with what

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I do today with a undergraduate degree

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in aerospace engineering but needing to

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know some geology and microbiology at

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this point without having necessarily

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taken any biology classes since high

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school

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there's been a lot of ongoing learning

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one thing that I would like to point out

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is that

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from where you're at now to where you

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want to be there are many different

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paths and you can take any number of

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those paths as long as you keep option

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open

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I originally thought that my end goal

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was to work at JPL and send stuff to

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Mars but once I got to JPL I realized my

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true passion included that early-stage

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development that you can really only do

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easily in academia a place like a NASA

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center is great for higher TRL

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development but that super cutting edge

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high-risk high-reward development is a

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much more easily a tackle from an

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academic environment

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another thing is changing paths is not

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failure I started with a ph.d program at

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Brown University and pharmaceutical

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chemistry which was not what I wanted to

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be doing but I thought that I wanted to

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do that changing my mind and leaving

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with a master's was not failure

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it was a redirection towards what I

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actually wanted to do and don't be

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if you are interested in something

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pursue it I originally was only

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interested in aerospace engineering I

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got distracted by chemistry it is what

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has given me the opportunity to have the

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career that I have today if you are

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interested in it go for it and make it

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work in the long run and then finally

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along the lines of what Jen was saying

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about mental health find something

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outside of your day job that you

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actually enjoy doing your best creative

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moments will likely come out of

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exploring those other creative avenues

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in your brain there are so many pivotal

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points in my career that I could point

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to that were turning points for me and

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we could be here all day so I won't do

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that but I can say that the decision

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that I made between graduate school when

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my postdoc position was huge I also

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thought I wanted a job at NASA I

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actually went to Caltech in grad school

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I went to the JPL spectroscopy group and

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did

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a lot of my laboratory work in graduate

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school I knew them very well I saw their

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day-to-day activities and I thought this

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is great I could get a job at a NASA lab

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I wasn't sure I wanted to teach and so

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this seemed like the best fit for me

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and then sometime around my fourth year

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in graduate school I realized I actually

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really enjoyed teaching and I also

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started to talk to my friends at JPL and

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realized that to have the academic

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freedom to work on the science I really

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wanted to work on I needed a different

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job than a job at a NASA lab you can

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tailor a job at a NASA lab to give you

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that freedom but it's somewhat

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challenging to work yourself into the

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right level of position to have that

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when you're first starting out in

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particular you typically are given a

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project related to a mission or a

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contract and that's what you have to

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work on and so when I would go to visit

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the lab at JPL they would have their

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NASA job from 9 to 5 and then they'd eat

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dinner and then they'd stay late and

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work on their own research after hours

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and I realized at that point that I

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didn't want that sort of life for myself

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that I wanted the freedom to work on

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whatever science interested me at

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whatever time I wanted to work on it so

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I ended up going into academia for two

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reasons one I actually really did like

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teaching and two because I realized that

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that best fit with what I needed

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career-wise in terms of allowing me the

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chance to do the things that I wanted to

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do and I was sitting here thinking I

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hadn't thought about the mental health

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aspect in relation to this question but

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I will say another major turning point

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for me was when I was a postdoc I was

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struggling with life choices being a

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research academic is really challenging

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I was getting ready to go in the job

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market

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I wasn't sure I could do it imposter

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syndrome was real if you don't know what

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that phrase means look it up I guarantee

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everyone in this room has experienced

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this at least once in your life probably

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has grad students on a daily basis the

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deep secret of academic research is

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professors still have impostor syndrome

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even after they get tenure almost every

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day it's normal

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there are ways to deal with it

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you can do it you just have to tell

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yourself you can do it and try anyway

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and ignore the little voice in your head

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that says that you're a fraud and

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they're all gonna figure you out so

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along with taking care of yourself in

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terms of mental health remind yourself

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that you got into grad school for a

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reason you are a very talented

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individual and you can do the things

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that you set out to do in your career

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maybe some people should have more

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imposter syndrome so what do you think

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the grad students often miss that they

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should be taking more note up at this

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point and everyone's alright

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I said I think that the importance of

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becoming very comfortable with rejection

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and failure that's something that's come

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up and along with that seeking out

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constructive criticism because you've

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all heard this many times probably

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00:12:17,870 --> 00:12:15,660
you're all type all of your type a but a

276
00:12:21,740 --> 00:12:17,880
lot of your type a I'm type a you know

277
00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:21,750
um and or at least I I was before I just

278
00:12:30,590 --> 00:12:26,880
got so couldn't be as organized as I

279
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:30,600
originally was I have more time but you

280
00:12:34,610 --> 00:12:32,130
know we all have very high expectations

281
00:12:36,620 --> 00:12:34,620
for ourselves and we were all probably

282
00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:36,630
really good students got good grades and

283
00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:38,100
all these things right

284
00:12:43,250 --> 00:12:40,980
and then it becomes much more about

285
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:43,260
these bigger things obviously than the

286
00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:44,970
grades right the grades don't matter

287
00:12:49,550 --> 00:12:47,220
anymore and you're not even in classes

288
00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:49,560
anymore after you go through comps right

289
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:52,740
and so then suddenly it's the papers and

290
00:12:57,980 --> 00:12:54,800
the fellowships and these much bigger

291
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:57,990
kind of amorphous things that are very

292
00:13:03,290 --> 00:13:00,480
very competitive with like 5% success

293
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:03,300
rates or something and so it's very hard

294
00:13:09,740 --> 00:13:06,330
and I think that's where even if you are

295
00:13:12,110 --> 00:13:09,750
in a program with great support and you

296
00:13:16,060 --> 00:13:12,120
know let alone all the other pressures

297
00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:16,070
that are on a lot of people outside of

298
00:13:21,410 --> 00:13:19,350
academia but you know or inside academia

299
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:21,420
unfortunately anyway talk more about

300
00:13:25,490 --> 00:13:23,519
that but

301
00:13:27,319 --> 00:13:25,500
you know getting getting used to it's

302
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:27,329
gonna be a very low success rate and

303
00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:29,010
it's very competitive and so you just

304
00:13:33,170 --> 00:13:31,320
gotta now I kind of I kind of joked that

305
00:13:34,879 --> 00:13:33,180
now I just always expect everything's

306
00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:34,889
gonna be rejected and then I'm like oh

307
00:13:40,220 --> 00:13:37,260
wow it wasn't rejected or it was only

308
00:13:42,650 --> 00:13:40,230
you're ejected but it's encouraged to be

309
00:13:46,519 --> 00:13:42,660
resubmitted that's like awesome because

310
00:13:48,290 --> 00:13:46,529
I expected it to be rejected with no

311
00:13:50,930 --> 00:13:48,300
encouragement for me that's what I hope

312
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:50,940
that's my go-to a priori things then

313
00:13:56,300 --> 00:13:53,250
everything I tell that time in my labs

314
00:13:58,850 --> 00:13:56,310
they were done for a bit and same with

315
00:14:00,439 --> 00:13:58,860
grants so you know so then it really

316
00:14:06,650 --> 00:14:00,449
does that's how I tricked myself into

317
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:06,660
kind of more excited about everything so

318
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:10,320
because I'll tell you story so I was re

319
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:12,480
on bars some of you know him I was his

320
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,130
student so I think he's heard the story

321
00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:16,560
if not if he's watching I think he's

322
00:14:23,210 --> 00:14:20,220
right but my first paper to get rejected

323
00:14:25,129 --> 00:14:23,220
I think it was like my first paper

324
00:14:27,259 --> 00:14:25,139
maybe second paper in grad school and

325
00:14:30,350 --> 00:14:27,269
then I got like three rejected in a row

326
00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:30,360
and I each one and it was really kind of

327
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:32,310
back-to-back like with every six months

328
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,170
it was happening and I just did the

329
00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:36,000
completely wrong thing like I didn't

330
00:14:41,569 --> 00:14:39,540
tell aural for months because it came to

331
00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:41,579
my email and I was like so embarrassed

332
00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:44,910
about it and so just anxious and just

333
00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:47,430
terrified that I just didn't tell him

334
00:14:52,819 --> 00:14:49,740
for months and don't do that just that's

335
00:14:55,759 --> 00:14:52,829
the thing about about finally he was

336
00:14:59,449 --> 00:14:55,769
like he's like whatever happened with

337
00:15:05,000 --> 00:14:59,459
that paper he was tenured obviously at

338
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:05,010
this point and I said yeah about that it

339
00:15:09,470 --> 00:15:07,199
got rejected he's like it's been a long

340
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:09,480
time I'm like he's like when did they

341
00:15:17,090 --> 00:15:15,690
get rejected I'm like and he's like Jen

342
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:17,100
you have to tell me these things you

343
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:20,160
know I could I could you know if it was

344
00:15:23,930 --> 00:15:22,050
really depending on how the reviews were

345
00:15:25,579 --> 00:15:23,940
you know I could contact the editor and

346
00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:25,589
usually those things don't go through

347
00:15:28,579 --> 00:15:27,060
and you don't want to bug editors about

348
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:28,589
things you don't want your advisors to

349
00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:30,930
bug most editors about things but you do

350
00:15:34,610 --> 00:15:32,550
want you know your advisor is your

351
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:34,620
advisor and they want to help you or

352
00:15:37,860 --> 00:15:36,310
most of them well

353
00:15:39,780 --> 00:15:37,870
stephane really do want to help you and

354
00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:39,790
so use them for that and really do ask

355
00:15:43,950 --> 00:15:41,529
for their opinion even if you think that

356
00:15:46,290 --> 00:15:43,960
you know you know what you're doing they

357
00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:46,300
know they've been in this longer and

358
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:51,460
they they will help you through it so or

359
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:53,440
ask other grad students or you know

360
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:54,730
other people on your committee or

361
00:15:59,450 --> 00:15:57,490
something I know there's some you know

362
00:16:03,240 --> 00:15:59,460
sometimes there are some advisor issues

363
00:16:05,250 --> 00:16:03,250
but ask somebody for help and seek out

364
00:16:11,340 --> 00:16:05,260
constructive criticism kind of a long

365
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,350
story sorry there I like that I started

366
00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:13,600
off from day one every proposal with the

367
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:16,270
10% acceptance rate of course everything

368
00:16:20,430 --> 00:16:17,680
that you said you you watch it fly away

369
00:16:28,950 --> 00:16:20,440
and it's gone and if it comes back

370
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:28,960
that's awesome alright so what do I

371
00:16:37,190 --> 00:16:31,450
think graduate students often miss you

372
00:16:40,350 --> 00:16:37,200
should start networking like right now I

373
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:40,360
have a kind of a story to go along with

374
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:44,410
this also basically I got my postdoc

375
00:16:50,070 --> 00:16:47,620
position because I had developed a

376
00:16:52,950 --> 00:16:50,080
network already with the team at JPL

377
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:52,960
that was doing similar things to what my

378
00:16:59,010 --> 00:16:56,530
PhD was doing and it turned out that we

379
00:17:02,250 --> 00:16:59,020
needed someone to go transfer technology

380
00:17:03,870 --> 00:17:02,260
from Berkeley through JPL and so my boss

381
00:17:05,699 --> 00:17:03,880
was on the phone with one of the guys at

382
00:17:15,329 --> 00:17:05,709
JPL and I was like hey that's gonna be

383
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:15,339
me the postdoc okay and then after that

384
00:17:20,490 --> 00:17:17,679
I was working at JPL in the clean rooms

385
00:17:23,130 --> 00:17:20,500
and it turned out that whenever we had a

386
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:23,140
process that would fail at our clean

387
00:17:28,770 --> 00:17:24,970
rooms we would send it to Georgia Tech

388
00:17:30,180 --> 00:17:28,780
to be done in the clean rooms here so

389
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:30,190
whenever I heard that they were looking

390
00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:32,050
for a professor doing kind of like what

391
00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:34,990
I wanted to do it was kind of a

392
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:37,420
no-brainer like yes pick me I want to

393
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:40,240
work at those clean rooms so that

394
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:42,850
network that you develop is is really

395
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:44,710
important I'll let you talking about

396
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:47,440
that networking I think is the number

397
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:49,090
one thing and I know it's really

398
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:50,210
intimidating as

399
00:17:55,149 --> 00:17:52,970
student to just walk up to somebody at a

400
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:55,159
conference and introduce yourself but

401
00:17:59,950 --> 00:17:56,450
it's the best thing you could possibly

402
00:18:01,659 --> 00:17:59,960
do for your career because if you see

403
00:18:03,340 --> 00:18:01,669
these people at multiple conferences

404
00:18:05,409 --> 00:18:03,350
they start to remember who you are and

405
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:05,419
then when they see you give a talk they

406
00:18:10,570 --> 00:18:08,240
remember your science and this develops

407
00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:10,580
into a group of people who can support

408
00:18:16,149 --> 00:18:14,000
you for the rest of your career one of

409
00:18:18,220 --> 00:18:16,159
my colleagues at Emory told me after I

410
00:18:20,529 --> 00:18:18,230
started there that one of the things

411
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:20,539
they really liked about my application

412
00:18:24,490 --> 00:18:22,850
was the fact that based on the letters

413
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:24,500
they could tell I had the networking

414
00:18:28,180 --> 00:18:26,090
level of somebody that was already

415
00:18:30,940 --> 00:18:28,190
tenured because astrochemistry is a

416
00:18:32,110 --> 00:18:30,950
pretty small field and I had gone to all

417
00:18:34,659 --> 00:18:32,120
the meetings I had met all the people

418
00:18:36,190 --> 00:18:34,669
they knew me they knew my work and so

419
00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:36,200
when I was on the job market people

420
00:18:40,419 --> 00:18:38,360
could call up someone related to

421
00:18:42,669 --> 00:18:40,429
astrochemistry and ask them about me and

422
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,679
they all knew my name and that is

423
00:18:47,769 --> 00:18:45,200
absolutely the most important thing that

424
00:18:49,149 --> 00:18:47,779
you can do the other part I guess that I

425
00:18:50,049 --> 00:18:49,159
would say for this question is be

426
00:18:53,620 --> 00:18:50,059
meticulous

427
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:53,630
quadruple check all of your work if it's

428
00:18:58,360 --> 00:18:55,730
going to be deposited somewhere

429
00:19:01,120 --> 00:18:58,370
permanently you want to make sure that

430
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:01,130
it's right so check your slides for

431
00:19:04,930 --> 00:19:03,049
conference talks check your papers and

432
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:04,940
if you make a mistake admit you make a

433
00:19:08,860 --> 00:19:07,370
mistake and correct it and you'll get a

434
00:19:11,169 --> 00:19:08,870
lot of respect from people in the field

435
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:11,179
for that for admitting when you mess up

436
00:19:17,950 --> 00:19:16,250
everybody messes up it's okay and don't

437
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:17,960
wait three months to tell you adviser

438
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:22,970
that your paper got rejected okay good

439
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:24,890
so could you sum up your career advice

440
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:26,809
in a couple of sentences so if you had

441
00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:28,850
to roll all of that into a couple of

442
00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:30,710
sentences a nice little tootsie roll of

443
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:36,529
goodness what would it be all right this

444
00:19:40,419 --> 00:19:38,240
is just something that I have to say

445
00:19:42,940 --> 00:19:40,429
that that I'll just answer the question

446
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:42,950
with just don't read anything into

447
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:46,690
emails it's very tempting Jubilee nice

448
00:19:51,389 --> 00:19:49,010
psychoanalyse every one of our ale on

449
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:51,399
bars emails for five years

450
00:19:58,120 --> 00:19:55,520
w and just don't it's not worth it it's

451
00:20:00,100 --> 00:19:58,130
they don't ever mean what you think they

452
00:20:01,930 --> 00:20:00,110
mean like in the tone that do you think

453
00:20:03,970 --> 00:20:01,940
they mean it's just email it's just such

454
00:20:06,340 --> 00:20:03,980
a difficult form of communication

455
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:06,350
and if somebody doesn't you know you

456
00:20:10,029 --> 00:20:08,000
back right away that means absolutely

457
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:10,039
nothing about you it's not all about you

458
00:20:14,590 --> 00:20:11,690
it's not all about me Jen

459
00:20:17,860 --> 00:20:14,600
so uh huh yeah just don't read into

460
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:17,870
emails and but dude do do a really good

461
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:20,720
job you know and and proofread your

462
00:20:26,919 --> 00:20:22,880
emails and write really strong emails

463
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:26,929
but don't ever take anything personal

464
00:20:31,930 --> 00:20:29,840
from an email basically but also don't

465
00:20:34,750 --> 00:20:31,940
ever write anything personal in an email

466
00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:34,760
because as we know now these days with

467
00:20:37,419 --> 00:20:35,990
all the lawyers out there and

468
00:20:39,159 --> 00:20:37,429
everybody's seeing everything and your

469
00:20:41,399 --> 00:20:39,169
university can read all your emails at

470
00:21:04,350 --> 00:20:41,409
any time so just don't ever say anything

471
00:21:11,799 --> 00:21:10,419
and keep your head up and take every bit

472
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:11,809
of advice as though it was intended

473
00:21:16,899 --> 00:21:14,570
positively even if you think perhaps it

474
00:21:18,220 --> 00:21:16,909
wasn't just get rid of the negative

475
00:21:20,019 --> 00:21:18,230
thoughts and be like that's good advice

476
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:20,029
I'll just I'll take that and I'll keep

477
00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:23,570
going you have everyone else the benefit

478
00:21:35,470 --> 00:21:25,070
of the bet doubt but especially give

479
00:21:37,090 --> 00:21:35,480
yourself it should all work out as long

480
00:21:40,450 --> 00:21:37,100
as you realize that there are multiple

481
00:21:43,710 --> 00:21:40,460
ways to get to point B over there and a

482
00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:43,720
couple of twists and turns of fine I

483
00:21:49,629 --> 00:21:46,940
would say if I was gonna sum it up work

484
00:21:52,450 --> 00:21:49,639
hard but take care of yourself meet

485
00:21:54,399 --> 00:21:52,460
people and do the best work that you can

486
00:21:56,590 --> 00:21:54,409
do and get your name and your science

487
00:21:59,740 --> 00:21:56,600
out there and the rest will take care of

488
00:22:01,960 --> 00:21:59,750
itself but also believe in yourself

489
00:22:03,879 --> 00:22:01,970
because if you think you're not

490
00:22:05,470 --> 00:22:03,889
qualified so you just don't apply you

491
00:22:08,049 --> 00:22:05,480
never know if you could have gotten that

492
00:22:11,169 --> 00:22:08,059
post doctor that fellowship or that job

493
00:22:13,149 --> 00:22:11,179
so give it a go a lot of other people

494
00:22:15,009 --> 00:22:13,159
that are very much less qualified than

495
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:15,019
you will apply for that job so you

496
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:17,510
should too

497
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:20,400
trust me I read applications now a lot

498
00:22:23,630 --> 00:22:22,080
of people who are very much less

499
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:23,640
qualified than you will apply for that

500
00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:30,330
job yeah some of the feedback that we

501
00:22:33,860 --> 00:22:32,190
got already was that we had only

502
00:22:35,779 --> 00:22:33,870
academics up here so if you have any

503
00:22:38,029 --> 00:22:35,789
industry questions I'm sure that they

504
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:38,039
all know some things about industry and

505
00:22:50,149 --> 00:22:47,130
we'll take questions now thank you so

506
00:22:51,529 --> 00:22:50,159
speaking about transition to industry do

507
00:22:54,649 --> 00:22:51,539
one get the HD and extremely difficult

508
00:22:56,899 --> 00:22:54,659
and sometimes an oral field I mean that

509
00:22:58,430 --> 00:22:56,909
yeah you know I said yeah you have to do

510
00:23:00,980 --> 00:22:58,440
everything you can for success very

511
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:00,990
students within academia and the truth

512
00:23:06,380 --> 00:23:04,320
is many of those graduates here will go

513
00:23:08,049 --> 00:23:06,390
into fields outside of academia I've not

514
00:23:10,399 --> 00:23:08,059
said necessarily in the industry

515
00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:10,409
something even beyond it so do you think

516
00:23:14,380 --> 00:23:13,049
we eyes are doing enough to prepare

517
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:14,390
their students to that possibility

518
00:23:23,899 --> 00:23:21,600
transition outside of academia graduate

519
00:23:27,230 --> 00:23:23,909
school is not necessarily always about

520
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:27,240
the specific details of the science that

521
00:23:30,980 --> 00:23:29,130
you're working on graduate school is

522
00:23:32,570 --> 00:23:30,990
about learning how to troubleshoot how

523
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:32,580
to problem-solve and how to think

524
00:23:37,549 --> 00:23:35,010
critically and it doesn't matter what

525
00:23:40,190 --> 00:23:37,559
your PhD is in if you learn those skills

526
00:23:43,130 --> 00:23:40,200
you can transfer that to any job

527
00:23:45,140 --> 00:23:43,140
anywhere in the world I have a lot of

528
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:45,150
friends who graduated with me that are

529
00:23:51,289 --> 00:23:48,000
not doing anything related to what they

530
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:51,299
did in their PhD half of my job is not

531
00:23:55,340 --> 00:23:53,760
related to anything I did in my PhD half

532
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:55,350
my jobs people management

533
00:23:59,419 --> 00:23:57,690
nothing ever trains you for that in

534
00:24:01,039 --> 00:23:59,429
graduate school and yet it's probably

535
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:01,049
the most important skill that I could

536
00:24:04,940 --> 00:24:03,570
have for my job so if you know how to

537
00:24:06,049 --> 00:24:04,950
troubleshoot you know how to think

538
00:24:08,570 --> 00:24:06,059
critically and you know how to

539
00:24:10,669 --> 00:24:08,580
problem-solve you're gonna be fine no

540
00:24:12,740 --> 00:24:10,679
matter where you are they're looking for

541
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:12,750
what comes with a degree not the

542
00:24:30,239 --> 00:24:14,610
specific training that you've had in

543
00:24:39,460 --> 00:24:37,960
so this is regarding TRL's so we see an

544
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:39,470
astrobiology we have these large

545
00:24:43,619 --> 00:24:41,600
missions going out into the solar system

546
00:24:45,639 --> 00:24:43,629
and so forth but a lot of times they're

547
00:24:47,919 --> 00:24:45,649
vulnerable because the large ticket

548
00:24:50,590 --> 00:24:47,929
price to administrative wins especially

549
00:24:53,889 --> 00:24:50,600
instead of the sphere of NASA I feel

550
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:53,899
strongly that we should diversify and

551
00:24:58,509 --> 00:24:56,480
try to be more innovative and more

552
00:24:59,680 --> 00:24:58,519
economical but I like to hear what

553
00:25:00,970 --> 00:24:59,690
suggestions you might have for getting

554
00:25:03,460 --> 00:25:00,980
through the valley of death the TRL

555
00:25:05,769 --> 00:25:03,470
valley of death okay so the

556
00:25:07,330 --> 00:25:05,779
reorganization of the Roses proposal

557
00:25:09,549 --> 00:25:07,340
structure was intended to eliminate the

558
00:25:11,379 --> 00:25:09,559
valley of death by going from the acid

559
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:11,389
and a steps over to the Picasso and

560
00:25:17,649 --> 00:25:14,090
Matisse that's supposed to supposed to

561
00:25:18,970 --> 00:25:17,659
bridge that gap where Picasso is TRL one

562
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:18,980
two three does everyone in here know

563
00:25:24,999 --> 00:25:22,730
what TRL is okay a couple of people TRL

564
00:25:27,399 --> 00:25:25,009
is technology readiness level it goes

565
00:25:29,259 --> 00:25:27,409
from one I can write it on a napkin up

566
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:29,269
to 10 I've flown it multiple times and

567
00:25:36,190 --> 00:25:32,450
it has worked what used to happen is

568
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:36,200
that it was good support for low TRL

569
00:25:40,210 --> 00:25:38,090
development and then there was good

570
00:25:43,419 --> 00:25:40,220
support for taking it from six up to

571
00:25:45,129 --> 00:25:43,429
flight but that that gap in here between

572
00:25:47,470 --> 00:25:45,139
I have demonstrated it in the laboratory

573
00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:47,480
and I can show that it would work in

574
00:25:52,629 --> 00:25:49,609
space that gap was not well covered and

575
00:25:54,369 --> 00:25:52,639
that is supposed to be covered now by

576
00:25:57,999 --> 00:25:54,379
the Matisse program which is the

577
00:26:01,810 --> 00:25:58,009
maturation of instruments for solar

578
00:26:04,389 --> 00:26:01,820
system exploration I think anyone in

579
00:26:06,369 --> 00:26:04,399
here have any experience with art

580
00:26:10,570 --> 00:26:06,379
history because Picasso versus Matisse

581
00:26:15,549 --> 00:26:10,580
sounds like somebody who had a degree in

582
00:26:19,330 --> 00:26:15,559
art history came up with that anyway so

583
00:26:21,070 --> 00:26:19,340
Picasso is now anything can enter at TRL

584
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:21,080
one two three and it's supposed to exit

585
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:22,970
with at least TRL elevation of one and

586
00:26:27,970 --> 00:26:25,039
then Matisse is anything can enter

587
00:26:29,769 --> 00:26:27,980
between I think three and six it's

588
00:26:31,810 --> 00:26:29,779
supposed to get everything up to six by

589
00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:31,820
the end whenever you go up for a big

590
00:26:37,330 --> 00:26:33,710
mission you have to come in at TRL six

591
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:37,340
TRL six means that you have demonstrated

592
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:38,720
that it can work in an analog

593
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:41,289
environment which does not mean full

594
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:43,970
full system ready to go to space

595
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:46,490
but you know I've shaken it I've

596
00:26:49,270 --> 00:26:47,360
vibrated it

597
00:26:50,890 --> 00:26:49,280
I've vacuumed it all the way out I've

598
00:26:55,330 --> 00:26:50,900
run it upside down I've done all these

599
00:26:56,830 --> 00:26:55,340
other sorts of things that doesn't

600
00:26:58,540 --> 00:26:56,840
answer your question fully because we

601
00:27:01,330 --> 00:26:58,550
still have multi-generational mission

602
00:27:04,330 --> 00:27:01,340
with a political cycle that goes over at

603
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:04,340
least every eight years if not four so I

604
00:27:09,010 --> 00:27:05,600
don't know how to answer that question

605
00:27:20,380 --> 00:27:09,020
fully but the new funding structure is

606
00:27:25,690 --> 00:27:22,930
either so as women how do you balance

607
00:27:27,910 --> 00:27:25,700
the difference between criticism that's

608
00:27:39,610 --> 00:27:27,920
constructive and that is somewhat

609
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:39,620
discriminatory I'm sure Jen will have

610
00:27:44,830 --> 00:27:41,090
something that is much more constructive

611
00:27:48,190 --> 00:27:44,840
to say here in my own personal sanity

612
00:27:51,490 --> 00:27:48,200
I've tended to just assume everything is

613
00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:51,500
constructed just throw it all over there

614
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:53,600
in that box in my brain and deal with it

615
00:27:58,600 --> 00:27:57,440
a different time that's great I think

616
00:28:01,450 --> 00:27:58,610
that's a very positive attitude

617
00:28:02,770 --> 00:28:01,460
everything is everything is constructive

618
00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:02,780
everything's gonna get rejected but

619
00:28:09,850 --> 00:28:04,310
everything is constructive I think

620
00:28:13,330 --> 00:28:09,860
that's a good approach I like that yeah

621
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:13,340
I this so this pops into mine in terms

622
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:16,370
of imposter syndrome but first of all I

623
00:28:21,220 --> 00:28:19,520
do want to say for the women well for

624
00:28:25,270 --> 00:28:21,230
all of you that I think imposter

625
00:28:27,850 --> 00:28:25,280
syndrome is pretty universal and of

626
00:28:28,810 --> 00:28:27,860
course there's ingrained things as women

627
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:28,820
in society

628
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:32,690
you know we definitely are expected to

629
00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:34,850
act one way but you know men are

630
00:28:40,540 --> 00:28:36,980
expected to act another way and then of

631
00:28:44,110 --> 00:28:40,550
course there's non-binary and and trans

632
00:28:47,650 --> 00:28:44,120
and so it's very complicated and we all

633
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:47,660
have our own unique you know dilemmas

634
00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:51,610
but I guess what this makes me think of

635
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:54,110
kind of a moment and I was thinking of

636
00:28:57,790 --> 00:28:55,730
this when when you were talking about

637
00:28:59,890 --> 00:28:57,800
you know networking and getting out

638
00:29:02,410 --> 00:28:59,900
there and cuz I kind of did a lot of

639
00:29:04,510 --> 00:29:02,420
that as a late PhD student and I

640
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:04,520
actually got a little bit of like flack

641
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:08,000
for it from some very few like it

642
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:10,930
probably it overwhelmingly helped me but

643
00:29:18,250 --> 00:29:14,960
there were a couple senior men in the

644
00:29:21,870 --> 00:29:18,260
field who in a grumpy you know will not

645
00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:21,880
be named but who kind of said you know

646
00:29:28,180 --> 00:29:25,310
yep you know why are you offering to do

647
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:28,190
these review papers and you know beyond

648
00:29:31,609 --> 00:29:29,570
this committee or this committee you

649
00:29:34,709 --> 00:29:31,619
know you need to focus on your research

650
00:29:36,599 --> 00:29:34,719
you know do that after tenure which is

651
00:29:38,190 --> 00:29:36,609
of course what you hear consul wait wait

652
00:29:42,419 --> 00:29:38,200
to do that till after tenure wait to do

653
00:29:45,869 --> 00:29:42,429
that so after tenure so and I do think

654
00:29:48,029 --> 00:29:45,879
that that in it that that comment was

655
00:29:51,509 --> 00:29:48,039
probably a little bit more directed to

656
00:29:53,999 --> 00:29:51,519
me as a as a woman than maybe than

657
00:30:01,459 --> 00:29:54,009
myself you know just from having seen

658
00:30:05,699 --> 00:30:01,469
how they've been treated you know but I

659
00:30:08,369 --> 00:30:05,709
think this is why it's so important to

660
00:30:09,539 --> 00:30:08,379
have lots of networks and to kind of

661
00:30:11,849 --> 00:30:09,549
surround yourself by this amazing

662
00:30:14,699 --> 00:30:11,859
community I think because it really is

663
00:30:16,409 --> 00:30:14,709
an amazing early career community and a

664
00:30:20,219 --> 00:30:16,419
lot more diverse obviously than the

665
00:30:21,930 --> 00:30:20,229
faculty and often so you guys all need

666
00:30:25,739 --> 00:30:21,940
to really support each other and you

667
00:30:27,889 --> 00:30:25,749
know help each other and and then you

668
00:30:30,930 --> 00:30:27,899
know once one of you gets hired you know

669
00:30:32,819 --> 00:30:30,940
Bob you know keep the other ones coming

670
00:30:36,209 --> 00:30:32,829
up we've done very well for white women

671
00:30:38,430 --> 00:30:36,219
as you can see now we need to get more

672
00:30:40,379 --> 00:30:38,440
diverse no acknowledge it we're all

673
00:30:44,609 --> 00:30:40,389
white women you're right so now we need

674
00:30:49,459 --> 00:30:44,619
to get more much more diverse diversity

675
00:30:53,129 --> 00:30:49,469
yep now the one with tenure gets to talk

676
00:30:54,239 --> 00:30:53,139
haha before tenure most of the time I

677
00:30:56,069 --> 00:30:54,249
just let it go

678
00:30:58,529 --> 00:30:56,079
I mean you pick your battles if it was

679
00:31:00,899 --> 00:30:58,539
really over-the-top ridiculous I would

680
00:31:04,139 --> 00:31:00,909
contact the editor or the program

681
00:31:06,329 --> 00:31:04,149
officer or someone um had a lot of

682
00:31:08,339 --> 00:31:06,339
behind-the-scenes discussions with

683
00:31:10,169 --> 00:31:08,349
friends at conferences about how to

684
00:31:10,919 --> 00:31:10,179
handle something somebody said those

685
00:31:13,589 --> 00:31:10,929
sorts of things

686
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,599
on occasion you know you go in the

687
00:31:17,399 --> 00:31:15,039
bathroom and lock yourself in the stall

688
00:31:19,349 --> 00:31:17,409
and have a good cry and then go back out

689
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:19,359
in the hallway and you're fine right

690
00:31:26,609 --> 00:31:22,089
that was one talk in particular when I

691
00:31:29,009 --> 00:31:26,619
was a grad student but once I got tenure

692
00:31:32,099 --> 00:31:29,019
so at Emory and chemistry I was the

693
00:31:37,589 --> 00:31:32,109
first woman to get tenure in state and

694
00:31:39,089 --> 00:31:37,599
so I and it not because of the need

695
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:39,099
dysfunction in our department just

696
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:40,690
because of the way things happened

697
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:46,320
it's been a weird transition for me

698
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:49,360
because I was also the year after I got

699
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:51,850
tenure I had a son and I was the first

700
00:31:55,470 --> 00:31:53,530
woman in 22 years to take maternity

701
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:55,480
leave in my department and they didn't

702
00:31:59,460 --> 00:31:57,370
even know which paperwork we needed to

703
00:32:05,010 --> 00:31:59,470
fill out it was really really

704
00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:05,020
complicated unnecessarily and so that

705
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:06,910
raised a lot of things that I had never

706
00:32:12,660 --> 00:32:10,050
had to deal with in my career before and

707
00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:12,670
there were comments made that were

708
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:15,340
innocent that needed to be addressed and

709
00:32:20,130 --> 00:32:17,170
I addressed them and on some occasions

710
00:32:22,850 --> 00:32:20,140
my colleagues address them on my behalf

711
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:22,860
before I had a chance to say anything

712
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:27,370
but now I feel like as a woman with the

713
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:29,440
security of tenure and a male-dominated

714
00:32:35,130 --> 00:32:32,770
field in a male-dominated department it

715
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:35,140
is my job to step up and say something

716
00:32:41,610 --> 00:32:37,690
because if I don't there isn't anybody

717
00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:41,620
else who will and so I am fighting

718
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:43,390
battles now that I never would have

719
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:46,960
fought before everywhere from my

720
00:32:53,220 --> 00:32:49,510
department to my university to funding

721
00:32:55,260 --> 00:32:53,230
agencies to journals all the way up I

722
00:32:57,870 --> 00:32:55,270
send emails I probably shouldn't send

723
00:32:59,820 --> 00:32:57,880
though I do live by the philosophy air

724
00:33:01,170 --> 00:32:59,830
cops once told me never write it in an

725
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:01,180
email if you don't want it on the front

726
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:02,770
of the New York Times and that is the

727
00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:08,110
best advice I've ever gotten but you

728
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:10,030
know I send emails that I never would

729
00:33:13,530 --> 00:33:11,470
have sent before I got tenure

730
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:13,540
I have phone conversations with program

731
00:33:17,790 --> 00:33:15,370
officers that I never would have had

732
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:17,800
before I got tenure because I feel like

733
00:33:23,790 --> 00:33:19,840
I have to and I'm in a place where I can

734
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:23,800
and I should and so use the level that

735
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:26,170
you're at to help the people coming up

736
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:27,970
behind you and it will continue to get

737
00:33:48,330 --> 00:33:37,360
better and if you need somebody to give

738
00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:48,340
you advice send it to one of us exactly

739
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:50,080
use the level that's that's beautifully

740
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:53,050
said and it's not that you can't write

741
00:33:56,970 --> 00:33:55,360
strongly-worded passionate things in an

742
00:33:59,260 --> 00:33:56,980
email you know that you really feel it's

743
00:34:01,299 --> 00:33:59,270
just never write anything

744
00:34:05,860 --> 00:34:01,309
I bet you don't want on the New York

745
00:34:07,419 --> 00:34:05,870
Times yeah and it's not just women that

746
00:34:08,889 --> 00:34:07,429
stand up for women or underrepresented

747
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:08,899
minorities that stand up for

748
00:34:11,740 --> 00:34:10,250
underrepresented minorities it's

749
00:34:21,250 --> 00:34:11,750
everyone in this room standing up for

750
00:34:23,379 --> 00:34:21,260
everyone else in the community there are

751
00:34:25,180 --> 00:34:23,389
allies out there you just have to find

752
00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:25,190
them which is where the networking comes

753
00:34:33,220 --> 00:34:28,730
in some are obvious and some are not but

754
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:33,230
they're there so I just wanted to go

755
00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:35,210
back to your points earlier about

756
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:37,760
networking and such so in my current

757
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:39,440
situation I'm a rising second year

758
00:34:43,389 --> 00:34:41,810
masters student and you know I'm trying

759
00:34:45,490 --> 00:34:43,399
to keep my options open for next

760
00:34:48,250 --> 00:34:45,500
semester while I'm applying to um

761
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:48,260
different PhD programs and such and I

762
00:34:52,450 --> 00:34:50,480
found that I found a lot of universities

763
00:34:54,220 --> 00:34:52,460
in which they are programs that they

764
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:54,230
support and offer are really interesting

765
00:34:59,050 --> 00:34:56,690
to me but I was looking for some advice

766
00:35:00,910 --> 00:34:59,060
on how to navigate talking to different

767
00:35:03,070 --> 00:35:00,920
professors at that University how do I

768
00:35:05,370 --> 00:35:03,080
figure out if I fit in with their group

769
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:05,380
versus you know if my research is really

770
00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:08,210
applicable to what they're doing and how

771
00:35:11,770 --> 00:35:09,950
do I prepare myself for that sort of

772
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:11,780
icebreaker conversation to sort of

773
00:35:16,510 --> 00:35:15,290
figure and navigate all that now I get

774
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:16,520
to put on my director of Graduate

775
00:35:22,359 --> 00:35:20,690
Studies so the best thing you can do is

776
00:35:24,130 --> 00:35:22,369
look up everything you can about a

777
00:35:26,020 --> 00:35:24,140
particular professor you're interested

778
00:35:28,540 --> 00:35:26,030
in and send them an email a very

779
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:28,550
carefully worded email that tells them

780
00:35:32,590 --> 00:35:31,040
who you are what your experience is what

781
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:32,600
you're interested in and ask them if

782
00:35:36,820 --> 00:35:33,770
they're looking for students in their

783
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:36,830
group and anybody who's actually serious

784
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:39,170
about advising graduate students will

785
00:35:44,890 --> 00:35:42,320
respond to an email like that as quickly

786
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:44,900
as they can and tell you honestly

787
00:35:48,849 --> 00:35:46,250
whether or not they're taking students

788
00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:48,859
the next year and if it's me I'll send

789
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:52,660
you a link to our graduate application

790
00:35:59,230 --> 00:35:57,050
if you aren't sure if it's a good fit

791
00:36:00,849 --> 00:35:59,240
for you you can ask questions you can

792
00:36:02,410 --> 00:36:00,859
track down their students at conferences

793
00:36:04,359 --> 00:36:02,420
that's a really good way to find out

794
00:36:06,370 --> 00:36:04,369
information about a group every group

795
00:36:09,370 --> 00:36:06,380
has a personality and you need to figure

796
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:09,380
out if it's a good match for you every

797
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:11,450
program I've ever seen in science will

798
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:12,170
bring you into

799
00:36:16,059 --> 00:36:14,089
visit before you have to make a decision

800
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:16,069
about graduate school so go to the

801
00:36:20,799 --> 00:36:18,170
recruiting weekends ask a lot of

802
00:36:23,049 --> 00:36:20,809
questions get the students aside when

803
00:36:24,670 --> 00:36:23,059
the faculty member is not there and ask

804
00:36:27,039 --> 00:36:24,680
them what it's like to work for their

805
00:36:32,380 --> 00:36:27,049
advisor if they won't tell you there's a

806
00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:32,390
problem I actually shoved my students

807
00:36:37,180 --> 00:36:35,569
towards people and say I'm gonna go get

808
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:37,190
something to eat and I'll be back in ten

809
00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:38,720
minutes because I want them to talk to

810
00:36:43,780 --> 00:36:40,880
my students when I'm not there not

811
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:43,790
everybody will do that so yeah but you

812
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:45,530
should definitely reach out so the

813
00:36:50,410 --> 00:36:47,510
summer before I applied to graduate

814
00:36:52,809 --> 00:36:50,420
school I emailed probably 30 different

815
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:52,819
faculty members or more some of them

816
00:36:56,170 --> 00:36:54,530
wrote back some of them didn't some of

817
00:36:58,359 --> 00:36:56,180
them I was really interested in and so I

818
00:37:00,640 --> 00:36:58,369
tried multiple times one of those ended

819
00:37:02,460 --> 00:37:00,650
up being my graduate advisor anybody

820
00:37:08,049 --> 00:37:02,470
who's worked with him those it takes

821
00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:08,059
some time to get fed spawns and you know

822
00:37:11,260 --> 00:37:09,470
it just worked out I could tell from

823
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:11,270
their responses who I was interested in

824
00:37:16,809 --> 00:37:14,480
and who I wasn't can I also ask at your

825
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:16,819
point in applying and such did you

826
00:37:21,609 --> 00:37:19,730
already have research question and a

827
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:21,619
project that you had thought upon don't

828
00:37:26,980 --> 00:37:24,530
your own most faculty have grant funding

829
00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:26,990
for specific projects and they will want

830
00:37:31,210 --> 00:37:29,030
to plug you into that unless you come

831
00:37:33,370 --> 00:37:31,220
with your own fellowship money okay

832
00:37:40,030 --> 00:37:33,380
gotcha so thank you that's really

833
00:37:42,130 --> 00:37:40,040
insightful that I'm always really

834
00:37:44,319 --> 00:37:42,140
impressed and also remember to always

835
00:37:47,530 --> 00:37:44,329
attach your CV to the first email just

836
00:37:50,020 --> 00:37:47,540
send it out doesn't hurt and I've always

837
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:50,030
really impressed and now remember I'm a

838
00:37:55,690 --> 00:37:52,250
geologist and I don't know if it's

839
00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:55,700
different in chemistry but geology and

840
00:38:02,260 --> 00:37:58,160
microbiology I think - I think it's

841
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:02,270
often really good for you to talk about

842
00:38:07,390 --> 00:38:04,930
how you could kind of see yourself

843
00:38:09,670 --> 00:38:07,400
fitting into a certain project or at

844
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:09,680
least show that you've read their papers

845
00:38:16,420 --> 00:38:12,250
you know and you are actually really

846
00:38:20,020 --> 00:38:16,430
interested in you know their their work

847
00:38:21,789 --> 00:38:20,030
in some sort you know a way and it

848
00:38:23,410 --> 00:38:21,799
doesn't at all have to be what you it's

849
00:38:25,059 --> 00:38:23,420
not committing to a certain project it's

850
00:38:26,030 --> 00:38:25,069
just kind of showing how you might be

851
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:26,040
able to see

852
00:38:30,110 --> 00:38:28,890
yourself fitting in that will really say

853
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:30,120
especially if there's somebody you're

854
00:38:33,350 --> 00:38:31,650
really interested in that will really

855
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:33,360
set you above the bar cuz most people

856
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:35,730
don't don't do that it's usually form

857
00:38:39,860 --> 00:38:37,410
letters so if you don't if you write a

858
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:39,870
really personalized same for the job

859
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:41,520
market you want your cover letter as

860
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:43,530
always to be personalized for that place

861
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:50,610
not just form letters one other thing I

862
00:38:55,730 --> 00:38:54,000
forgot to mention is if you've been

863
00:38:57,350 --> 00:38:55,740
communicating with the specific faculty

864
00:38:59,090 --> 00:38:57,360
member and they're really interested in

865
00:39:00,980 --> 00:38:59,100
you as a student when they get to the

866
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:00,990
point of doing admissions whoever's in

867
00:39:05,690 --> 00:39:03,330
charge of admissions will probably have

868
00:39:07,820 --> 00:39:05,700
that info and that will get your file

869
00:39:10,340 --> 00:39:07,830
reviewed in the first round of

870
00:39:12,110 --> 00:39:10,350
application review and so if they really

871
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:12,120
want you they're gonna go find the

872
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:13,920
admissions chair and they're gonna tell

873
00:39:21,140 --> 00:39:16,290
them I really want this student find

874
00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:21,150
their file and admit them right now so I

875
00:39:25,820 --> 00:39:24,150
get these emails all the time and so

876
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:25,830
yeah if you have that personal contact

877
00:39:30,260 --> 00:39:27,450
and they're really impressed with you

878
00:39:31,460 --> 00:39:30,270
and you've had a multiple email exchange

879
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:31,470
they're gonna be looking for your

880
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,730
application when it comes in I haven't

881
00:39:40,070 --> 00:39:37,200
been a professor that long but I do have

882
00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:40,080
one quick story I had a student call me

883
00:39:44,690 --> 00:39:42,300
up he was a master's student and another

884
00:39:48,620 --> 00:39:44,700
University and he said I'd like your job

885
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:48,630
how do I get it and so we started

886
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:50,400
talking and I didn't I thought I was

887
00:39:56,540 --> 00:39:52,170
advising a student I didn't realize I

888
00:39:59,510 --> 00:39:56,550
was recruiting a student and so later he

889
00:40:00,740 --> 00:39:59,520
applied for Georgia Tech and yes he's a

890
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:00,750
really great graduate student in my

891
00:40:10,190 --> 00:40:03,450
group now so that worked

892
00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:10,200
apparently do not email the person

893
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:12,150
that's supposedly the nice one in a

894
00:40:15,830 --> 00:40:13,920
field and get all sorts of career advice

895
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:15,840
and then when they offer you admission

896
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:17,910
go somewhere else and refuse to come and

897
00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:20,160
visit because that happened to me once I

898
00:40:25,340 --> 00:40:22,380
spent months emailing with this student

899
00:40:26,330 --> 00:40:25,350
got them a fellowship everything and

900
00:40:30,110 --> 00:40:26,340
then they wouldn't even come for

901
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:30,120
recruiting weekend so don't do that yeah

902
00:40:33,650 --> 00:40:32,160
at least go visit if you've taken the

903
00:40:36,620 --> 00:40:33,660
person's time to have an email

904
00:40:38,330 --> 00:40:36,630
conversation with them show up and ask

905
00:40:49,650 --> 00:40:38,340
questions

906
00:40:51,390 --> 00:40:49,660
yep and if you are interested in their

907
00:40:53,610 --> 00:40:51,400
group don't like totally ignore the

908
00:40:55,050 --> 00:40:53,620
group until the day before they have to

909
00:40:56,940 --> 00:40:55,060
sign off saying that they will accept

910
00:41:00,360 --> 00:40:56,950
you into their group because by then it

911
00:41:08,830 --> 00:41:00,370
might be too late general word of advice

912
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:11,390
vanillite similar question but for

913
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:13,770
postdocs especially for someone who is

914
00:41:18,860 --> 00:41:15,510
seeking postdoc in a little bit

915
00:41:21,020 --> 00:41:18,870
different area from their PhD and also

916
00:41:27,260 --> 00:41:21,030
what are the true duals and not to do

917
00:41:29,570 --> 00:41:27,270
when you're seeking her postdoc so I had

918
00:41:32,510 --> 00:41:29,580
a really great mentor who happened to be

919
00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:32,520
my husband's PhD advisor and when I was

920
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:34,500
on the job market for a postdoc position

921
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:36,450
I didn't know what to write in the

922
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:39,810
letter and I went to my advisor and he

923
00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:41,610
gave me good advice and then I went to

924
00:41:45,730 --> 00:41:43,110
this other adviser and he gave me

925
00:41:49,310 --> 00:41:45,740
fantastic advice and his advice was

926
00:41:51,530 --> 00:41:49,320
always offer to apply for fellowship

927
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:51,540
money it doesn't matter if you get it

928
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:53,760
but the fact that you're willing to try

929
00:41:58,610 --> 00:41:56,970
for him was the cutoff between somebody

930
00:42:01,730 --> 00:41:58,620
he would seriously consider in someone

931
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:01,740
he wouldn't this is a really big name in

932
00:42:06,620 --> 00:42:04,410
chemistry so in groups where they get

933
00:42:08,780 --> 00:42:06,630
inundated with postdoc applications that

934
00:42:09,890 --> 00:42:08,790
may very well be the deciding factor as

935
00:42:14,210 --> 00:42:09,900
to whether or not your file is

936
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:14,220
considered or not but I would say you

937
00:42:20,090 --> 00:42:17,760
know if you can tell the person in a

938
00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:20,100
short email why you would be a very good

939
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:22,260
fit for their group and what new skills

940
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:24,570
you would learn from being in their

941
00:42:30,370 --> 00:42:27,210
group that will go a long way to getting

942
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:30,380
their attention but we get spammed

943
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:34,050
almost daily by mass emails from people

944
00:42:38,030 --> 00:42:36,330
who are looking for a postdoc position

945
00:42:40,490 --> 00:42:38,040
and they just like go through an email

946
00:42:42,620 --> 00:42:40,500
everybody in a department and I get all

947
00:42:44,570 --> 00:42:42,630
these emails that start with dear sir I

948
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:44,580
would like a postdoc position in your

949
00:42:49,250 --> 00:42:46,890
lab I have extensive experience in

950
00:42:52,820 --> 00:42:49,260
medicinal chemistry and I'm like I don't

951
00:42:55,100 --> 00:42:52,830
understand why I this is not what I do

952
00:42:56,750 --> 00:42:55,110
when I'm in a bad mood on occasion all

953
00:42:58,070 --> 00:42:56,760
right back and be like why did you email

954
00:43:03,860 --> 00:42:58,080
me this is not what I do

955
00:43:05,420 --> 00:43:03,870
and I am NOT sir but so make sure that

956
00:43:07,070 --> 00:43:05,430
you get the name right make sure that

957
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:07,080
you know what they actually do and that

958
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:08,730
you're a good fit for their lab and

959
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:11,130
you'll get past that initial delete

960
00:43:17,809 --> 00:43:13,410
delete delete that many of us do because

961
00:43:25,939 --> 00:43:21,890
I might suggest also query your network

962
00:43:31,219 --> 00:43:25,949
because I think me as a new professor

963
00:43:34,189 --> 00:43:31,229
particularly I'm not necessarily feeling

964
00:43:36,529 --> 00:43:34,199
like high-risk situations are a good a

965
00:43:38,509 --> 00:43:36,539
good move for me but if I have a

966
00:43:39,890 --> 00:43:38,519
colleague that I really trust say my

967
00:43:42,729 --> 00:43:39,900
student is graduating they're looking

968
00:43:45,319 --> 00:43:42,739
for a postdoc that's a lot more of the

969
00:43:54,739 --> 00:43:45,329
that seems more nervous and I think

970
00:43:55,819 --> 00:43:54,749
that's going to be hi thank you so much

971
00:43:58,819 --> 00:43:55,829
for doing this by the way this is a very

972
00:44:00,890 --> 00:43:58,829
very insightful I want to jump on this

973
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:00,900
train also of the networking and also

974
00:44:05,989 --> 00:44:03,599
keeping your options open what would you

975
00:44:07,969 --> 00:44:05,999
advise PhD students you know to keep

976
00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:07,979
their options open on the network well

977
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:10,609
you know as it was mentioned earlier or

978
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:13,680
it's a small community for astrobiology

979
00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:16,079
right like how do we I guess yeah keep

980
00:44:27,739 --> 00:44:23,670
our options open networking I think just

981
00:44:29,989 --> 00:44:27,749
I mean it goes a long way just paying

982
00:44:31,759 --> 00:44:29,999
attention in the moment I know this

983
00:44:34,219 --> 00:44:31,769
sounds really hokey and hippie or

984
00:44:35,870 --> 00:44:34,229
whatever but you know I a lot of times

985
00:44:38,930 --> 00:44:35,880
I'll just say all the things I did wrong

986
00:44:41,569 --> 00:44:38,940
and continue to do wrong but I'm like on

987
00:44:43,219 --> 00:44:41,579
my phone or I'm like bitter and not

988
00:44:46,189 --> 00:44:43,229
paying attention and like the people

989
00:44:47,799 --> 00:44:46,199
that actually really and some people my

990
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:47,809
group are really good about this

991
00:44:53,199 --> 00:44:49,890
actually I think everybody is better

992
00:44:56,209 --> 00:44:53,209
than me like really active listening and

993
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:56,219
you know and practicing kind of

994
00:45:00,410 --> 00:44:58,170
assimilating information because there's

995
00:45:04,249 --> 00:45:00,420
just so much that's useful all around

996
00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:04,259
you all the time and also it's just

997
00:45:08,660 --> 00:45:06,569
really impressive when someone's like we

998
00:45:10,219 --> 00:45:08,670
can you know obviously we can like see

999
00:45:13,370 --> 00:45:10,229
you guys in the audience and the person

1000
00:45:16,449 --> 00:45:13,380
that's like not the whole time but you

1001
00:45:19,099 --> 00:45:16,459
know that's like really interested and

1002
00:45:22,279 --> 00:45:19,109
following along that actually goes a

1003
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:22,289
long way and that then you know you're

1004
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,609
just using all the information that's

1005
00:45:27,949 --> 00:45:25,440
coming at you it's not any extra time

1006
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:27,959
beyond what you're already doing

1007
00:45:30,410 --> 00:45:29,729
and then I don't know a lot of its just

1008
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:30,420
sarin

1009
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:33,119
I think that you know you're gonna bump

1010
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:35,250
into somebody and you know there's

1011
00:45:38,990 --> 00:45:36,930
probably you know a hundred different

1012
00:45:40,579 --> 00:45:39,000
people that you could have a potentially

1013
00:45:43,130 --> 00:45:40,589
a great postdoc with right there's not

1014
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:43,140
just one person it's like you know like

1015
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:45,450
a spouse or whatever well I guess we can

1016
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:49,920
do there's different one person in the

1017
00:45:54,620 --> 00:45:51,930
universe for all for each of you but I

1018
00:45:56,599 --> 00:45:54,630
think similar with postdoc advisors or

1019
00:46:00,740 --> 00:45:56,609
PhD advisors there's probably multiple

1020
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:00,750
people in the universe world exoplanets

1021
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:03,510
that would work for your adviser for it

1022
00:46:07,099 --> 00:46:05,250
to be your advisor right and so you

1023
00:46:08,539 --> 00:46:07,109
don't have to go find the one you just

1024
00:46:10,430 --> 00:46:08,549
have to find someone who's gonna be a

1025
00:46:13,069 --> 00:46:10,440
good good one for you so don't stress

1026
00:46:17,210 --> 00:46:13,079
too hard about finding the right match

1027
00:46:18,980 --> 00:46:17,220
but also you know you know if you hear

1028
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:18,990
something really interesting in a talk

1029
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:21,210
always go up afterwards and talk to that

1030
00:46:25,460 --> 00:46:22,530
person and you'd be amazed at how many

1031
00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:25,470
opportunities open up by just that after

1032
00:46:29,839 --> 00:46:28,440
you know that that interchange after a

1033
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:29,849
talk and you don't have to ever follow

1034
00:46:32,780 --> 00:46:31,170
up with them or do anything but

1035
00:46:50,030 --> 00:46:32,790
sometimes amazing things are gonna

1036
00:46:52,849 --> 00:46:50,040
happen and it's two minutes right okay

1037
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:52,859
so there's no unique match but selecting

1038
00:46:56,089 --> 00:46:54,930
your PhD or postdoc advisor is kind of

1039
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:56,099
like having a kid with someone they're

1040
00:47:11,030 --> 00:46:57,359
gonna be in your life for the rest of

1041
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:37,780
[Laughter]

1042
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:40,310
Thanks so one of the things that's sort

1043
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:42,330
of daunting for me when I envision you

1044
00:47:46,460 --> 00:47:44,310
know the possibility of obtaining and

1045
00:47:49,010 --> 00:47:46,470
performing well for a tenure-track

1046
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:49,020
faculty position is that big leap

1047
00:47:53,150 --> 00:47:51,810
between you know being having a lot of

1048
00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:53,160
experience and performing well as a

1049
00:47:58,760 --> 00:47:56,250
researcher onto large-scale project

1050
00:48:00,710 --> 00:47:58,770
management people management getting a

1051
00:48:03,770 --> 00:48:00,720
network of collaborators do you have any

1052
00:48:06,050 --> 00:48:03,780
advice for building up that experience

1053
00:48:08,330 --> 00:48:06,060
in terms of you know potentially sort of

1054
00:48:10,700 --> 00:48:08,340
being thrown into that situation for the

1055
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:10,710
first time in what steps you guys have

1056
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:15,330
taken to get that sort of experience if

1057
00:48:20,570 --> 00:48:17,850
you're a grad student mentor undergrads

1058
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:20,580
if you're a postdoc mentor grad students

1059
00:48:24,650 --> 00:48:23,010
and undergrads it's the best experience

1060
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:24,660
that you can get and if you have a

1061
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:26,610
chance to work on an experiment or a

1062
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:28,050
project that's starting from the ground

1063
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:30,930
up that also really prepares you well

1064
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:33,330
for starting a research group the

1065
00:48:39,140 --> 00:48:34,800
challenge with that is you still need

1066
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:39,150
papers so you need to have evidence for

1067
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:42,000
your work I joined a brand new lab as a

1068
00:48:46,910 --> 00:48:44,970
postdoc and I would not say that the

1069
00:48:49,700 --> 00:48:46,920
papers that I got out were high-impact

1070
00:48:51,740 --> 00:48:49,710
but I got a lot of papers out in those

1071
00:48:53,900 --> 00:48:51,750
three years despite the fact that it was

1072
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:53,910
a brand new group and my postdoc advisor

1073
00:48:59,090 --> 00:48:56,610
could say she effectively built my lab

1074
00:49:01,520 --> 00:48:59,100
and so they knew when I walked into my

1075
00:49:03,260 --> 00:49:01,530
position that I had the ability to at

1076
00:49:06,020 --> 00:49:03,270
least get a lab up and running and get

1077
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:06,030
an experiment up and running but the

1078
00:49:09,380 --> 00:49:08,010
people skills part I learned that along

1079
00:49:10,910 --> 00:49:09,390
the way and there are two people in the

1080
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:10,920
audience that can attest to the fact

1081
00:49:15,590 --> 00:49:13,370
that I didn't get it right all the time

1082
00:49:18,740 --> 00:49:15,600
because they started with me the very

1083
00:49:22,070 --> 00:49:18,750
first year there's a lot of growing both

1084
00:49:23,570 --> 00:49:22,080
with students and with faculty and one

1085
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:23,580
of my colleagues told me very early on

1086
00:49:29,210 --> 00:49:26,490
students are the most expensive pieces

1087
00:49:31,130 --> 00:49:29,220
of equipment that you have all of them

1088
00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:31,140
work differently and none of them come

1089
00:49:36,970 --> 00:49:33,440
with an instrument manual and it's

1090
00:49:39,110 --> 00:49:36,980
absolutely 100% true every student is

1091
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:39,120
different and you have to find the right

1092
00:49:45,260 --> 00:49:42,450
interaction approach with that for

1093
00:49:48,890 --> 00:49:45,270
advising and the right motivators and

1094
00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:48,900
the right things to do as an advisor to

1095
00:49:53,630 --> 00:49:50,520
help that person become

1096
00:49:56,090 --> 00:49:53,640
efficient as a scientist and that's most

1097
00:49:59,180 --> 00:49:56,100
of my job at this point that writing

1098
00:50:01,280 --> 00:49:59,190
grants and papers but yeah you pick up

1099
00:50:02,390 --> 00:50:01,290
that experience along the way but you

1100
00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:02,400
have to kind of seek out those

1101
00:50:06,260 --> 00:50:04,680
opportunities it's very tempting to say

1102
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:06,270
no I'm gonna hide in my corner and do my

1103
00:50:09,770 --> 00:50:08,610
science and ignore everybody else but if

1104
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:09,780
you do that you don't really come out

1105
00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:17,060
remember that science is done by

1106
00:50:22,220 --> 00:50:20,760
scientists also you mentioned proposals

1107
00:50:24,590 --> 00:50:22,230
at the very end but you can write

1108
00:50:32,650 --> 00:50:24,600
proposals before before then write

1109
00:50:36,940 --> 00:50:32,660
proposals at every step for those those

1110
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:36,950
you know like is there still the the

1111
00:50:42,530 --> 00:50:40,410
Lewis and Clark travel fellowship like

1112
00:50:44,510 --> 00:50:42,540
go for those level right that actually

1113
00:50:46,190 --> 00:50:44,520
goes a long way when you're on the job

1114
00:50:50,750 --> 00:50:46,200
market to have like a bunch of small

1115
00:50:52,820 --> 00:50:50,760
ones and I think just know also that

1116
00:50:55,070 --> 00:50:52,830
we're not trained in business management

1117
00:50:56,900 --> 00:50:55,080
and we're not trained in psychology it

1118
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:56,910
was not most of us that would be really

1119
00:51:00,320 --> 00:50:59,520
nice if we could be that would help a

1120
00:51:03,410 --> 00:51:00,330
lot I think

1121
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:03,420
but right now the way it is we're not

1122
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:05,970
and so you're gonna pick it up along the

1123
00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:08,010
way and you're just trust yourself fit

1124
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:10,260
you know you're you're gonna be fine

1125
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:12,480
like none of us had any additional

1126
00:51:16,850 --> 00:51:14,610
skills than what you had and and you'll

1127
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:16,860
be able to you'll be fine it's kind of

1128
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:18,960
like exposure therapy at a certain point

1129
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:21,210
you just kind of have to like jump in

1130
00:51:27,230 --> 00:51:25,200
and realize you can do it and you know

1131
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,240
that gets a lot at least for me that

1132
00:51:31,310 --> 00:51:29,280
helped me over a lot over the posture

1133
00:51:33,170 --> 00:51:31,320
syndrome to was just like suddenly oh my

1134
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,180
god I'm doing it I guess I'm not dead

1135
00:51:37,370 --> 00:51:34,800
yeah I haven't blown up the building

1136
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:37,380
like okay and now it's five years later

1137
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:43,440
you know yeah yeah but do make sure to

1138
00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:45,930
really ask your network about you know

1139
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,750
who you who you work with

1140
00:51:56,930 --> 00:51:50,880
now I figured out really good a

1141
00:52:01,130 --> 00:51:56,940
wonderful you know people and but there

1142
00:52:03,770 --> 00:52:01,140
were some interesting experiences at the

1143
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:03,780
beginning with collaborators

1144
00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:07,440
and so be sure you that your

1145
00:52:12,020 --> 00:52:09,870
collaborators carefully and ask your

1146
00:52:13,310 --> 00:52:12,030
networks about them and so that's all

1147
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:13,320
the more reason that it's really

1148
00:52:16,670 --> 00:52:14,850
important to have a really big network

1149
00:52:19,010 --> 00:52:16,680
of people you trust like this community

1150
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:19,020
you know and then you guys each trust

1151
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:20,490
people and so you can tell people who

1152
00:52:25,490 --> 00:52:23,010
you trust and so spread the word on

1153
00:52:28,100 --> 00:52:25,500
who's trustworthy and who's an ally and

1154
00:52:30,860 --> 00:52:28,110
and then sadly there are some non allies

1155
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:30,870
to tell spread the word about them too

1156
00:52:37,970 --> 00:52:36,210
you know okay so I think it would be

1157
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:37,980
good to end like a couple minutes early

1158
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:42,090
so if you guys can meet up at like 3:30

1159
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:44,010
five out in the stairs over here we'll

1160
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:45,930
take the picture go fast and then the

1161
00:52:49,700 --> 00:52:47,280
next thing up I believe is the poster

1162
00:52:52,820 --> 00:52:49,710
session in mozi for which there will be

1163
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:52,830
a beer and cider so that's extra reason

1164
00:52:58,280 --> 00:52:56,640
to go look so like seven minutes and

1165
00:53:01,760 --> 00:52:58,290
then meet in the stairwell please does

1166
00:53:02,260 --> 00:53:01,770
that work oh yes and thank you guys so